"Well," he said, "that is no very slight thing to have achieved before taking his departure." "He would not have accomplished any very great thing either,*Cf. Aristot. Eth. Nic. 1094 b 9 μεῖζόν γε καὶ τελεώτερον τὸ τῆς πόλεως φαίνεται καὶ λαβεῖν καὶ σώζειν, yet the good of the state seems a grander and more perfect thing both to attain and to secure (tr. F. H. Peters)." I replied, "if it were not his fortune to live in a state adapted to his nature. In such a state only will he himself rather attain his full stature*For αὐξήσεται Cf. Theaet. 163 C ἵνα καὶ αὐξάνῃ and Newman, Aristot. Pol. i. p. 68 As the Christian is said to be complete in Christ so the individual is said by Aristotle to be complete in the πόλις Spencer, Data of Ethics, xv. Hence it is manifest that we must consider the ideal man as existing in the ideal social state. Cf. also 592 A-B, 520 A-C and Introd. Vol. I. p. xxvii. and together with his own preserve the common weal.
The causes and the injustice of the calumniation of philosophy, I think, have been fairly set forth, unless you have something to add.*An instance of Socrates’ Attic courtesy. Cf 430 B, Cratyl. 427 D, Theaet. 183 C, Gorg. 513 C, Phaedr. 235 A. But in Gorg. 462 C it is ironical and perhaps in Hipp. Maj. 291 A." "No," he said, "I have nothing further to offer on that point. But which of our present governments do you think is suitable for philosophy?" "None whatever," I said; "but the very ground of my complaint is that no polity*κατάστασις = constitution in both senses. Cf. 414 A, 425 C, 464 A, 493 A, 426 C, 547 B. So also in the Laws. The word is rare elsewhere in Plato. of today is worthy of the philosophic nature. This is just the cause of its perversion and alteration; as a foreign seed sown in an alien soil is wont to be overcome and die out*For ἐξίτηλον Cf. Critias 121 A. into the native growth,*This need not be a botanical error. in any case the meaning is plain. Cf. Tim. 57 B with my emendation. so this kind does not preserve its own quality but falls away and degenerates into an alien type. But if ever it finds the best polity as it itself is the best, then will it be apparent*For the idiom cf. αὐτὸ δείξει Phileb. 20 C, with Stallbaum’s note, Theaet. 200 E, Hipp. Maj. 288 B, Aristoph. Wasps 994, Frogs 1261, etc., Pearson on Soph. fr. 388. Cf. αὐτὸ σημανεῖ, Eurip. Bacch. 476, etc. that this was in truth divine and all the others human in their natures and practices. Obviously then you are next, going to ask what is this best form of government." "Wrong," he said*Plato similarly plays in dramatic fashion with the order of the dialogue in 523 B, 528 A, 451 B-C, 458 B. "I was going to ask not that but whether it is this one that we have described in our establishment of a state or another." "In other respects it is this one," said I; "but there is one special further point that we mentioned even then, namely that there would always have to be resident in such a state an element having the same conception of its constitution that you the lawgiver had in framing its laws.*Cf. on 412 A and What Plato Said, p. 647 on Laws 962; 502 D." "That was said," he replied. "But it was not sufficiently explained," I said, "from fear of those objections on your part which have shown that the demonstration of it is long and difficult. And apart from that the remainder of the exposition is by no means easy.*Cf. Soph. 224 C. See critical note." "Just what do you mean?" "The manner in which a state that occupies itself with philosophy can escape destruction. For all great things are precarious and, as the proverb truly says, fine things are hard.*So Adam. Others take τῷ ὄντι with χαλεπά as part of the proverb. Cf. 435 C, Crat. 384 A-B with schol." "All the same," he said, "our exposition must be completed by making this plain." "It will be no lack of will," I said, "but if anything,*For the idiomatic ἀλλ’ εἴπερ Cf. Parmen. 150 B, Euthydem. 296 B, Thompson on Meno, Excursus 2, pp. 258-264, Aristot. An. Post. 91 b 33, Eth. Nic. 1101 a 12, 1136 b 25, 1155 b 30, 1168 a 12, 1174 a 27, 1180 b 27, Met. 1028 a 24, 1044 a 11, Rhet. 1371 a 16. a lack of ability, that would prevent that. But you shall observe for yourself my zeal. And note again how zealously and recklessly I am prepared to say that the state ought to take up this pursuit in just the reverse of our present fashion.*What Plato here deprecates Callicles in the Gorgias recommends, 484 C-D. For the danger of premature study of dialectic cf. 537 D-E ff. Cf. my Idea of Education in Plato’s Republic, p. 11. Milton develops the thought with characteristic exuberance, Of Education: They present their young unmatriculated novices at first coming with the most intellective abstractions of logic and metaphysics . . . to be tossed an turmoiled with their unballasted wits in fathomless and unquiet deeds of controversy, etc." "In what way?"